''If you think a monument to yellow belly cowards is going to somehow give a sense of respectfulness to these shameful Americans, who turned their backs on their country, you are sadly mistaken,'' one angry American wrote in an e-mail to city hall. ''I for one will never visit your town and spend a thin dime ever again, if this thing is built.''
Nice to see the forces of capitalism at work. Most of these small B.C. towns need tourist (ie. American) dollars to survive.
This has not gone over well with local business owners. A must-stop on the global counter-culture circuit, Nelson is filled with artists, spiritual seekers and dreadlocked drifters. But it owes much of its current prosperity to tourism, and to the American dollars it attracts.
Is there an echo in here? I thought that I just SAID that.
Let's look in on the mayor of Nelson, then and now, shall we?
Then:
The city's Mayor appeared delighted. ''I think it's the right place for it,'' David Elliot told the Nelson Daily News, after the press conference. ''We have a lot of open-minded people in this area and certainly people who are conscious of the efforts that happened in the Vietnam War.''
Open-minded. Heh. He means people who agree with him and the "peace in our time" crowd.
And now:
''I made an innocent comment, off the cuff,'' he explained. ''Yes, I am a peace activist. But I wasn't speaking as mayor when I said I liked the idea."
I wasn't wearing my magical mayor hat, so you can't construe my comments as being Nelson's mayor's opinion. See hat on, I'm the mayor- Hat off, whiny little idiot. I wasn't wearing my hat when I spoke to the press. Every reader's an idiot for not noticing that...
I feel sorry for the businesses in Nelson, who will suffer for the actions of a few stupid cowards, who want to commemorate their cowardice. Their only hope is to attempt to distance themselves as quickly as possible and mitigate the damage their hapless mayor has caused when he gave this assinine idea a sheen of official approval.
They should start by throwing him out of office.
Raging Kraut
One question is how many of the Americans who are pissed off about the proposed statue (which has now been blocked), and had threatened to boycott going to Nelson, even know where Nelson, and for that matter Canada, is.
It seems ot me that there were a few different types of individuals who were affected by the draft back in the sixties/seventies. There were the men who avoided the draft by staying in school (Clinton, Cheney), there were the who avoided the draft by using family connection to stay in the National Guard (Bush Jr, Quayle), there were those who refused to report and were jailed (Muhammed Ali), there were those who fled to Canada, and then there were those who actually went to Vietnam (Kerry, Gore). So when it comes to calling people cowards, who were the cowards? Certainly not the people who went to Vietnam, naive idiots would be a better description. Not the people who went to jail, it takes a lot of guts to go to jail for something that you believe in. With the last three categories, I believe that they are all equal in their cowardice. They all did what they had to do to avoid going to Vietnam, but if I had to choose you had the most guts then I think it was actually gutsier for those who left their country to start a new life in a foreign land, even a nice one like Canada, than those who just stayerd in University a few more years, or used Daddy's connections to ensure that you fulfilled all of your service Stateside.
Posted by on 09/28 at 11:25 PM
Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, such as it is...
As for your moral equivalence of draft dodgers, Extended University attendees and those that served in Guard units, I'm sorry, but you've missed the point (and I think you're totally wrong, of course.)
University and Guard service were legal ways of deferring being drafted. Were personal connections used to get into either area? Sure. Find me a country where that doesn't happen.
Draft dodgers made their choice to run away. Fine. They got off lucky when Carter granted them amnesty. They should be thankful that they weren't prosecuted. But, no - they want a monument to themselves for their taking of the easy way out - Fuck them. Fuck them up their fat patchouli-stinking asses. Running away is not noble.
Second last point. Guardsmen and University students aren't asking for a monument to themselves.
By the way, Vietnam Vets who want to call themselves naive idiots have earned that right - I don't think you or I have.
The proposed statue shows two Canadians extending their hands to assist a draft dodger. The statue is not glorifying the act of draft dodging so much as it is commemorating the friendship and support shown by Canadians to those in need.
You are perfectly correct in saying that lengthening one's stay in University and using connections to get Guard duty in the States were legal means of avoiding the War, but those means were not available to everyone. Only a small percentage on the male population attended University in the 60s, and even less had connections to get them in the guard. This is why the majority of soldiers there were poor, relatively uneducated, and a great number were from minority groups. So what were your options if you didn't have an education or connections, you could either go to Vietnam, go to jail, or go to Canada. It's not surprising that many chose to go to Canada instead of jail, or fighting in a war in a country that the majority of them could not find on a map, against a people who did not start the war against the Americans (the Gulf of Tonkin incident was as fabricated as the WMD excuse in Iraq). Also lets remember that eh Americans had even less World support for being in Vietnam than they currenly do in Iraq.
Posted by on 09/29 at 11:20 PM
"commemorating the friendship and support" yada yada yada - this is your interpretation of a statue that hasn't been built yet and probably won't. And if your interpretation is true then it's even worse: a bunch of smug Canadian hippies patting themselves on the back for doing not a hell of a lot.
Your invocation of Iraq has nothing to do with this discussion, so I'll ignore it (except to point out this topic's probably exhausted as you're reaching for unrelated items to try and prove your point.)
Poor and minority groups make up the majority of the armed forces in Vietnam? So what? It's the poor and minorities who ALWAYS make up the bulk of the armed forces anywhere.
Listen, I'm not saying that they should be persecuted or prosecuted - they have to live with what they've done, but Carter granted them amnesty, so let sleeping dogs lie. They ran- I can understand that. But they don't deserve a memorial, and neither does the welcoming committee that received them.
Ray, I see Greg has been busy trolling at your as well as mine.
Greg, time for you to do a little research on Vietnam. I suggest that you start with Stolen Valor by B.G.Burkett, and stop watching 60 minutes documentaries on the Vietnam war.
Posted by on 09/30 at 05:00 PM
Hi Kate, thanks for stopping by. I think my Greg and your Greg are two different people (unless I'm greatly mistaken)
Despite his adversarial superior tone, my Greg is one of my best friends, former roommate, UBC classmate. He was best man at my wedding, I was best man at his. I don't know where he lost his way, but I'm helping him recover from his overt Liberalism...
I couldn't get the email from the Blogger profile of your Greg, but if it's the same Greg, he's got some 'splaining to do...
[Rue] on 01/24/07 11:09 : With bated breath I await your return to blogging. [go]
[Rue] on 01/24/07 11:09 : With bated breath I await your return to blogging. [go]
[Rue] on 01/24/07 11:09 : With bated breath I await your return to blogging. [go]
[Rue] on 01/24/07 11:09 : With bated breath I await your return to blogging. [go]
[Rue] on 01/24/07 11:09 : With bated breath I await your return to blogging. [go]
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-- One of the Original Red Ensigns carried by the Penticton 1st Volunteers. It was present at Vimy Ridge when our little Dominion stood up and became a nation worth fighting for...
It seems ot me that there were a few different types of individuals who were affected by the draft back in the sixties/seventies. There were the men who avoided the draft by staying in school (Clinton, Cheney), there were the who avoided the draft by using family connection to stay in the National Guard (Bush Jr, Quayle), there were those who refused to report and were jailed (Muhammed Ali), there were those who fled to Canada, and then there were those who actually went to Vietnam (Kerry, Gore). So when it comes to calling people cowards, who were the cowards? Certainly not the people who went to Vietnam, naive idiots would be a better description. Not the people who went to jail, it takes a lot of guts to go to jail for something that you believe in. With the last three categories, I believe that they are all equal in their cowardice. They all did what they had to do to avoid going to Vietnam, but if I had to choose you had the most guts then I think it was actually gutsier for those who left their country to start a new life in a foreign land, even a nice one like Canada, than those who just stayerd in University a few more years, or used Daddy's connections to ensure that you fulfilled all of your service Stateside.
As for your moral equivalence of draft dodgers, Extended University attendees and those that served in Guard units, I'm sorry, but you've missed the point (and I think you're totally wrong, of course.)
University and Guard service were legal ways of deferring being drafted. Were personal connections used to get into either area? Sure. Find me a country where that doesn't happen.
Draft dodgers made their choice to run away. Fine. They got off lucky when Carter granted them amnesty. They should be thankful that they weren't prosecuted. But, no - they want a monument to themselves for their taking of the easy way out - Fuck them. Fuck them up their fat patchouli-stinking asses. Running away is not noble.
Second last point. Guardsmen and University students aren't asking for a monument to themselves.
By the way, Vietnam Vets who want to call themselves naive idiots have earned that right - I don't think you or I have.
You are perfectly correct in saying that lengthening one's stay in University and using connections to get Guard duty in the States were legal means of avoiding the War, but those means were not available to everyone. Only a small percentage on the male population attended University in the 60s, and even less had connections to get them in the guard. This is why the majority of soldiers there were poor, relatively uneducated, and a great number were from minority groups. So what were your options if you didn't have an education or connections, you could either go to Vietnam, go to jail, or go to Canada. It's not surprising that many chose to go to Canada instead of jail, or fighting in a war in a country that the majority of them could not find on a map, against a people who did not start the war against the Americans (the Gulf of Tonkin incident was as fabricated as the WMD excuse in Iraq). Also lets remember that eh Americans had even less World support for being in Vietnam than they currenly do in Iraq.
Your invocation of Iraq has nothing to do with this discussion, so I'll ignore it (except to point out this topic's probably exhausted as you're reaching for unrelated items to try and prove your point.)
Poor and minority groups make up the majority of the armed forces in Vietnam? So what? It's the poor and minorities who ALWAYS make up the bulk of the armed forces anywhere.
Listen, I'm not saying that they should be persecuted or prosecuted - they have to live with what they've done, but Carter granted them amnesty, so let sleeping dogs lie. They ran- I can understand that. But they don't deserve a memorial, and neither does the welcoming committee that received them.
Greg, time for you to do a little research on Vietnam. I suggest that you start with Stolen Valor by B.G.Burkett, and stop watching 60 minutes documentaries on the Vietnam war.
Despite his adversarial superior tone, my Greg is one of my best friends, former roommate, UBC classmate. He was best man at my wedding, I was best man at his. I don't know where he lost his way, but I'm helping him recover from his overt Liberalism...
I couldn't get the email from the Blogger profile of your Greg, but if it's the same Greg, he's got some 'splaining to do...